User talk:Ralnon

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Happy editing, JAlbor (help forum | blog)

Editor's Conflict
Alright, here's the deal, both of you are right to an extent. Hawki wanted to:
 * 1) Remove duplicated content. He said information on the Angiris Council page was just repeating what was mentioned on the individual members' pages. I personally didn't verify this (I have a lot of work to do since Diablo III came out, you understand), but if it is true, he is right, the Council page should be trimmed. If you had content on there that doesn't exist on the individual members' pages, then you should go back into the history and find your edits, copy them and paste them into the members' articles (making them fit of course).
 * 2) Hawki said there was a lot of quoted text from the books. Technically this is not plagiarism if you provide the source and put the text in quotes (which is what is generally done), however, while he may not be correct on the legality, he is right that too much quoted text is sloppy editing. I suggest you have a look at the Children of Bul-Kathos article, I wrote that and a very large portion of it is from the books (I believe, I never read them myself), but I rewrote it into my own words; rearranged paragraphs, used synonyms, completely cut boring passages that didn't add anything, etc...

Now on to your part. Hawki hacked large portions of the content out, but I do not believe he thought the content was bad, and I think he intended it as a temporary solution. In other words, just because he removed content does not mean you should just leave it as a skeleton. Review what was chopped, trim the sub-standard parts, make it flow better, and then put it back in. Though keep in mind the two points above, don't duplicate other portions of the wiki, and don't over use quotes (some quotes are still good, it gives credibility to the article).

Hawki probably didn't even realize the person that wrote all of your stuff was still around. He may have assumed it was old content written a long time ago that needed to be updated and decided a complete rewrite was the best course of action. The original author is still around though (you), and you can fix it. Like I said above, find the removed content, clean it up, and put it back. I'm sure if you take the time to apply some polish and crop out anything superfluous, Hawki will be just as pleased with the results.

And definitely ignore Zerghunterxxx, he is just bullying you and you are taking the bait. No one except him and his barely-coherent grammar have urged you to quit editing.

Now I hope you will follow my advice and get back to contributing, to be honest, you are creating a bit too much drama. ◄► Tephra ◄► 02:59, May 26, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hawki is right, in a sense, I admit; now, especially, with the the release of the third game and so much new information and lore, some reorganization should optimally occur. I have tried my best not to overly use quotes - Hawki himself has made use of them in his recent edits - and I didn't use more than at most one for Tyrael; I didn't use any for the Angiris Council one. All that other work, I didn't just copy and paste; I spent hours typing on my own every day for several weeks in an attempt to improve, expand and summarize them. Maybe Hawki believes, as he says, that no one's work is "sacred", but I personally reject that - I think everyone's work is, and to that, I still hold.
 * For instance, I, too, felt that Inarius's inclusion in the article was possibly a bit of a stretch; I did modify his description over time to that of a "possible" member, but at no point did I consider removing it completely, simply because I felt that such was not absolutely necessary. I try to integrate or incorporate everyone's edits together, to gradually build on what they already have, to refine and maybe improve upon, but not just rewrite everything, and I refuse to remove anything unless I really have to. For all that other user's tiresome ranting, he was in part right about one thing at least: I am probably too careful and precise on these "little things" - but I never thought that a particularly bad thing.
 * But even if the older versions should be altered, I'm not too sure whether Hawki's current ones are the best for the wiki either. For example: "Thanks to Tyrael and his mortal allies however, Auriel and Itherael were rescued and the tide turned in Heaven's favor. Imperius was not so eager to side with the "abominations" he'd condemned 3,000 years ago, but it became a moot point as he was incapacitated and the heroes defeated the Lord of Terror regardless." "Auriel continued to act as a bridge between the two angels but Malthael was another story." "That Tyrael had not sided with him at the conclusion of the Sin War was another thorn in his side." Hawki's style may be seen as somewhat more concise, doubtless, but it is also much more informal and honestly seems a little less than professional to the average reader.
 * The quote for Angiris Council that Hawki added doesn't directly refer to the five themselves, but actually the "unity" of the Angels of the High Heavens, who were in turn led by the Council. Hawki seems to desire an image for the page, but as he removed the only one I was able to get for the article, I'm not too sure what he means or wants. And maybe you haven't noticed it yet, but the spelling and grammar of the articles also need serious improvement; there are simply too many run-off or borderline run-off sentences, various issues with syntax, and quite a few mistakes in spelling...last time I checked, "disapeared" wasn't spelled as such in English. For all its possible faults, even Wikipedia is better at article presentation...
 * But, listen: I said Hawki has made certain points worthy of consideration, and I meant what I said as well. I think I've found a compromise, at least a temporary solution, to this issue, and I will get back to contributing as soon as I can, maybe beginning with improving less controversial articles. But I promise you this: I will make sure to respect his own edits and views as best I can, and I will try to give them a wide berth whenever possible. I am grateful for your response, and I hope Hawki will respond well to mine. Ralnon (talk) 15:01, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Again, go back into the history and copy the edits Hawki deleted. Paste them into Word or some such program and fix them up. Maybe divide the information a bit, some for the council page; some for the individual pages. Then put it back in. Just because Hawki deleted content does not mean the articles need to stay that way. He removed content from the council page because it was too wordy, just find a way to turn your information into more of a summary and put the rest into the individuals' articles. As for the image, I don't really know what to put there, is there any image depicting all of the angels in the council together or at least more than one of them? Or perhaps any images of an angel interacting with Mephisto (I believe he was the one that appeared at a council meeting)? ◄► Tephra ◄► 18:45, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

If I didn't want you editing the wiki, I would have banned you. I don't know why you took Hawki's edits so personally, he was open to negotiation and compromise. I hope that you don't regard him as your enemy and both of you can contribute to the wiki in a civil manner. If a conflict arises, just talk it through logically and with open-mindedness. ◄► Tephra ◄► 07:02, November 2, 2012 (UTC)